Mind over Manager

Why is mental health a critical issue for managers and leaders in the VCSE sector? To mark Mental Health Awareness Week 2025, Mark Willis from Wider Sky Training chats to Mike Hickman, Leadership Development and Training Manager at Community First Yorkshire, about the consequences of not giving our mental health the same priority as our physical health, and how line managers can help their team members feel confident and safe at work. 

Transcript

250509 Mark Willis Mental Health Awareness Week Podcast

 Mike Hickman, Community First Yorkshire and Mark Willis, Wider Sky Training

[Mike] Welcome to a quick podcast from Community First Yorkshire for Mental Health Awareness Week. My name is Mike Hickman, I'm Leadership Development and Training Manager and I'm joined by a new trainer for us, Mark Willis of Wider Sky Training. I've had the privilege of working with him before but we won't go into that now.

Mark, could you first of all tell us why mental health is a critical issue for managers and leaders in our sector, in the VCSE sector? 

[Mark] I think we under-prioritise mental health as a society, even as a species. If you think about it, you know, there's always a thing - we've all got mental health, of course we've all got there, but you know it controls so much of what we do doesn't it? So if you think about a working environment, someone's mental health is going to control how they see the world, how they see you as the manager, how they see their job, how they see the future, how happy they are to come into work in the morning and yet kind of don't look after it and it still mesmerises me why we don't do that and why we don't give it the same priority as physical health when it does control everything. I'm kind of aware we look after our car, our hair, our clothes, but we don't look after the very thing that sort of controls everything.

So I think that's sort of a global kind of reason to do it. Just in terms of stats, I think it's 51% of all absence, depending on which stat you read, - I think this was a national mind stat -51% of all absence is stress, anxiety or depression and I think the same stat said, although I struggle to believe this one might be quite how bad it is, 95% of people would still lie about it in today's day and age, but just going back to the sort of half of absence is mental health related. So obviously it's crucial to look after it. 

In terms of the sector, I guess, you know, costs are going up. I think a lot of charities are certainly struggling at the moment. They've seen restrictions in their income and everything else and staffing is the biggest cost, isn't it? So, if we can get the staffing right, then yeah, we can make a huge difference to that. 

[Mike] How can prioritising mental health benefit the organisations in North Yorkshire? Well, I think you've answered some of it already, but if we had the key headline, what would it be? 

[Mark] I think just using a personal example.  I think back to the last job I had, which was working for a local charity for what, nine years. It was probably the best job I ever had. It was a charitable sector, so it definitely wasn't the money, Mike. It absolutely wasn't the money.

It's the best job I ever had because I felt safe there and by that I mean that if I were feeling anxious or low or stressed, I could say, I didn't have to paint on the smiley face. I remember one of the first things I did was go with my chief executive to Glasgow to teach for a week. If I have one area that I struggle with for reasons I won't bore you with, it's being away from home and being able to tell her this isn't going to be a laugh for me, this is quite difficult, so I didn't have to act at the same time.

I think the absence rates at that particular place weren't bad and I think a lot of that was, you might as well come into work. If you feel safe at work and supported, you might as well come in. So I think that's kind of the first one.

I suppose in terms of what the advantages are, you've got productivity. If people, if human beings feel secure, it's the Maslow stuff, then you know, you can't work if you feel scared. If you look at our body language, if I feel anxious talking to Mike now, which I don't because he's lovely, but if you look at our body language, it's like this.

We don't function well. Think of footballers, those of you that like your sport. If you lose confidence, you kind of second guessing yourself.

95% of what my brain's doing is subconscious. That's why I can speak a language I've been speaking for 57 years. It's muscle memory.

Driving, but the minute you try and think about driving, you pretend it's your driving test and try and focus on what you're doing. It'll fall to pieces. So we need people to feel confident, to feel secure, to be able to work.

So that's what you've got, productivity. Then there's more obvious stuff like absenteeism. Absenteeism is obviously not turning up for work. Presenteeism is turning up for work, but struggling because you're struggling with mental health. Again, I think back to a job I had where I used to come in at seven in the morning and leave about seven at night. And the reason I stayed such a long time was I was struggling with depression and just couldn't concentrate.

Everything took so long. Trying to do an email, I remember having to write notes on it. So certainly productivity, staff retention, just better atmosphere. It kind of does everything, doesn't it, if you're feeling mentally well. 

There's a stat. I always throw a stat in. I think for every pound spent, I've seen two stats. For every pound spent on mental health training, it's supposed to save five pounds. I have seen nine pounds too, but let's go with a safe one.

[Mike] Let's say if you want to save five pounds, it's a good thing to be. Look, if that's your imperative and why don't different people have different motivations. We're coming up to the end of our time and I'm aware that you've now answered elements of the next two questions already.

So, I tell you what, we'll head for the last and key one and the reason you're listening to this, folks. If you wanted resources or training for managers and leaders to better support a team’s mental health, where could people or what might people wish to book about now? 

[Mark] Obviously, I'm thinking about training, Michael, and particularly the wonderful courses provided by Community First Yorkshire. It can change your life, folks.

It seriously can - focussing on mental health can make a huge difference with that. There's all sorts of things out there. Don't underestimate websites as well.

Just free things like Action for Happiness has got 10 things that are really good for mental health. Download it to your phone, gives you something to do that's brilliant for mental health every day. Use your employee assistance programmes.

Mental health first aid, I think, is a great way to embed it. 

[Mike] I think you trained me on mental health first aid. Yeah.

Full disclosure. I would say it's very well worth doing. 

[Mark] Yeah. Thank you for that £5 virtually handed over. Thank you very much. But the one that we're doing, the first course that we're doing is line manager, isn't it? And what better way to embed mental health? Your 1-2-1s - maybe embed in things like a wellness action plan, if you haven't come across.

You're asking questions like, if you are mentally unwell, staff member, how would I notice? What would you like me to do if you are unwell? Is there anything about you I need to know, et cetera? That sort of thing. I think they're worth the weight in gold, aren't they? So little tips like that. And then maybe just talks, how to keep your staff well.

An hour will do it for you. They can embed it. And it's not just about avoiding illness.

It's about getting more out of life, which is where we started, isn't it? Your mental health controls everything. Get more out of life. 

[Mike] Fantastic. So, if you'd like to go along to the training page on Community First Yorkshire's website, 27th of May, How to Manage for Good Mental Health. You've heard from the trainer already. It's Mark who will be leading that session.

And then on the 10th of June, we have...

[Mark] 10 Ways to Wellbeing Challenge. The challenge is to go out there and try it. 

[Mike] Fantastic. Well, we're really looking forward here to those sessions. We're really looking forward to seeing as many people as possible book. And in Mental Health Awareness Week, it's been wonderful to talk to you.

Thank you very much. Thank you, Mark. 

[Mark] Thank you.